[CivicAccess-discuss] inviations? + tranlated letter + plans?

Tue Dec 13 07:19:24 AEDT 2005

tracey - i like it all.  i'm going to do it on the wiki now.

patrick - below
On 12/12/05, Patrick Dinnen <pdinnen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Michael - you're right that the email address for the list could be more
> elegant (CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca doesn't trip off the
> tongue). But I've just taken a look at this in Mailman and I think it
> might be tricky to do for 2 reasons: 1) the part before the @ in the
> email address (CivicAccess-discuss) is also used as the name for the
> list in various other contexts within the mailman system, where just
> 'list' might not work very well (eg it's used as the identifier on the
> archive selection page). 2) Renaming the list may actually mean deleting
> and starting over, renaming a running list isn't an option as far as I
> can see.

i'm hanging out with some sysadmins. they say that it can be done, but
it's a pain in the ass.  In that case I say we put it off until later
when we collect a few kickass sysadmins who can do it in their sleep.
>
> We could try a recreating the list as something like
> CivicAccess at civicaccess.ca, but that might not be a huge improvement
> with the downside of losing the list activity so far. Thoughts?
>
> The text of the invite looks good to me. On the question of how to word
> the section about who should be able to access data at no-cost how about
> a tweak of Tracey's version to '... civic information and data should be
> made easily accessible at no cost to citizens'. This is deliberately
> non-specific in terms of commercial use or no. By leaving these
> questions open we hopefully make the list more appealing to a broad
> range of folks with different ideas on questions like this. My 1c.
>
I like your machiavellian way of thinking - but I think it's an
important point.  But we should and will definitely discuss it in the
larger group.

> Patrick
>
>
>
> Michael Lenczner wrote:
> > points inserted below:
> >
> > first - I think the name of the mailing list is bad.  If we change it
> > - now is the time before we invite people.  I think it should just be
> > list at civicaccess.ca.
> >
> > If I am the only one that thinks this is worth thinking about, I will
> > drop it.  But it isn't a big deal if we change it now.
> >
> > as for the comments below - if no one disagrees with me i will make
> > the changes on the wiki.  so be sure to tell me if you think i'm
> > wrong.
> >
> > On 12/12/05, Tracey P. Lauriault <tlauriau at magma.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>Greetings all;
> >>
> >>It is breakfast time, with crumpets, coffee, sunshine and all,  and I am
> >>dreaming of drinking some rasberry mort subite and to having a bravo
> >>toast with my new pals on this list at some point in time today in
> >>celebration of having sent out of the invitation letter!  It is the
> >>small things in life that make me happy really!
> >>
> >>On a more professional note, below (+on wiki) is the letter that I
> >>attempted to translate (attempt being the operative here!), and was
> >>wonderin' what our plans are?  There are also the -how to get involved-
> >>bits below the letter that need -names and how to stuff- that I hope one
> >>you fine and wonderful fellas can fill in.  I translated below each para
> >>to make it easier for the franco editeurs.
> >>
> >>Any way, i will keep looking at and pinning for the bubbly on the fridge
> >>door until which time we do the thang and can celebrate!
> >>
> >>Cheers
> >>Tracey
> >>
> >>************
> >>'''Comments:'''
> >>tweakable and targeted
> >>
> >>go out soon
> >>
> >>go out to all on the mail list at the same time
> >>
> >>all add names to list
> >>
> >>'''questions'''
> >>need to ensure the how to bits are clear - '''''see engagement
> >>information'''''?  Can one of you fine people ensure that it will be
> >>easy to get pwords and such and ensure that the part at the end of the
> >>letter is clear?
> >>
> >>'''DRAFT INVITE LETTER:'''
> >>
> >>Hi There;
> >>Bonjour;
> >>
> >>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey here and we would like to invite
> >>you to co-found a new canadian civic engagement space - Citizens for
> >>Open Access to Civic Information and Data (COACID).  We are contacting
> >>you since we know that you have been thinking and talking about these
> >>issues, have been actively engaged in related activities, and also
> >>because each or you has unique expertise, knowledge and experience to
> >>contribute to this type of activity (i.e. social planning, data access,
> >>open source, mapping, technology creation, etc.).
> >>
> >>
> >>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael et Tracey vous invitent à la formation d'un
> >>nouvel espace d'engagement civique canadien - Citoyen-ne-s pour l'Accès
> >>Libre à l'Information et aux Données Civiques (CALIDC).  On vous
> >>contacte car nous savons que vous aussi avez considérer et discuster de
> >>ces sujects, aviez été impliqué dans des activités reliés, et parce-que
> >>vous avez de l'expertise, des connaissances, et de l'experience à
> >>contribuer à ce type d'entreprise (example: planification sociale, accès
> >>au données, logitiels libres, cartographie, development de technologie,
> >>eccetera).
> >>
> >>
> >>We are a group of diverse citizens, who also happen to be technologists,
> >
> >
> > the four of us actually aren't a group of diverse citizens.  tracey -
> > you're the only one who isn't white male professional in between the
> > ages of 25-32 ;-)  we can either say that we are aiming to be a
> > diverse group or just say that we're a group of citizens who also
> > happen to be . . .
> >
> >
> >>academics, and activists, who share a common belief that civic
> >>information and data should be made easily accessible at no cost for
> >>non-commercial purposes to citizens and civil society organizations. We
> >
> >
> > okay - this is a big point actually.  There is a big difference
> > between free data and data free for non-commercial use.   It seems
> > like a small detail but it's really important.  For example I would
> > *love* to be able to create a mapping website with environmental data
> > on it that is supported by advertisments to environmental products.  I
> > think we should change this to:
> >
> > "share a common belief that civic information and data should be made
> > freely accessible to all citizens"  We could add an "in instances
> > where data collection currently depends upon cost recovery,
> > non-commercial use should be allowed with the aim to future free
> > access"
> >
> >
> >>are doing this because, we understand that participatory democratic
> >>processes require that citizens have access to information and data to
> >>inform their engagement and to improve the quality of the decisions they
> >>make during that process. But also because, information and data are the
> >>essential bits and bytes required to re-imagine, re-envision, visualize
> >>and critically analyze the communities we live in.
> >>
> >
> > I think we could say this stronger - that if we are to fulfill our
> > role as engaged citizens we need to be informed about our society.
> > Having open access to the civic information is key.
> >
> >
> >>Nous sommes un regroupement divers de Citoyen-ne-s, qui sommes aussi des
> >>technicien-ne-s, acdémiques, et actitivistes, qui croient que
> >>l'informations et les données numériques devront être facilement accéder
> >>sans frais pour des buts non commerciales au citoyen-ne-s et les
> >>organismes civiques.  Et ce la participation des citoyen-ne-s dans le
> >>procès démocratiques est intégralement lié à l'accès de l'informations
> >>et données numériques qui informent cet engagement et aussi qui améliore
> >>la qualité des décisions faitent dans ce procès.  Aussi, l'informations
> >>et les données numériques sont nécéssaires pour re-imaginer,
> >>re-envisioner, visualiser et pour analiser les collectivitées dans
> >>lesquelles nous vivons.
> >>
> >>So far a COACID Civic Access discussion lists has been created and also
> >>a wiki with some draft content.  The wiki is an open source
> >
> >
> > get rid of open source - not relevant.
> >
> >
> >>collaborative tool that will host content discussed on the list.  In
> >>short this is an emerging community of citizens across Canada like you
> >>who want to share what they know, do, their skills, information and data
> >>and these tools are there to facilitate that.
> >
> >
> > I'm going to edit this one a bit:
> >
> > "As concerned citizens of our neighborhoods, cities, provinces and
> > country we are trying to contribute to the development of a larger
> > community of practice around open civic data in Canada.  We believe
> > that the combination of stronger open access to civic data along with
> > new information and communication tools can encourage and support a
> > more informed and engaged citizenship.  This mailing list and wiki
> > exist to help people like you who share this belief to pool what they
> > know, what they do, their skills, their information and their
> > resources and to support each other in this goal.
> >
> > shoot - that's too wordy as well.
> >
> >
> >>à date nous avons créer une liste de dicussion COACID Civic Access et un
> >
> >
> > change COACID to CALIDC
> >
> >>wiki.  Le wiki est un outil collaboratif et un example d'un logitiel
> >>libre qui supportera les discussion de la liste de discussion. Bref,
> >>c'est une collectivité emergente de citoyen-ne-s à travers le canada de
> >>personnes comme vous qui veulent partager ce que l'on sait, fait, nos
> >>compétences, de l'information, des données numériques, et des outils
> >>associés pour faciliter ces objectifs.
> >>
> >>Please join the list and introduce yourselves, check out the wiki, share
> >>your ideas, interests, and add some content and discuss issues you think
> >>are important from your unique and diverse perspectives.  There is no
> >>pre-determined way to do or say things, so feel free to say, modify, and
> >>do as you like in this environment. The group remains small and closed.
> >>Once we have been working together a little the list and wiki will be
> >>opened to the public and other related communities of practice!
> >>
> >
> > I would change the last 2 sentances to:
> > The mailing list and wiki are still closed to the public.  The only
> > reason for that is for us to discuss together about this topic - what
> > we want it to become, how we can want to work together - before we
> > invite the general public.  We are not trying to be exclusive - 3 of
> > us have never worked specifically in the domain of civic information -
> > but we think that it could be beneficial to temporarily share a more
> > limited discussion with you before we open up the site and mailing
> > list.  We want to have a solid idea for this space before we lauch it
> > and we are asking for your help in deciding what that framework should
> > be.
> >
> >
> >>Joignez-vous à la liste de discussion, introduisez-vous, navigué le
> >>wiki, partagé vos idées, intérets, et ajouter du contenue et discuté des
> >>sujets que vous considérez importants de vos perspectives uniques. Il
> >>n'y a pas de format spécifié pour partager vos commentaire, donc soyez
> >>libre de dire, modifier, et de faire ce que vous voulez dans cet
> >>environment.  Le groupe demeure petit et fermé au fondateur et invité en
> >>ce moment, et lorsques nous serions plus habitués de travailler ensemble
> >>la liste de discussion et le wiki seront ouverts au public et d'autre
> >>communautés de pratiques.
> >>
> >>We look forward to being engaged in this information and data community
> >>building activity with you!
> >>
> >>Nous avons hate d'etre engagé avec vous dans la formations d'une
> >>nouvelle communauté dedié au partage d'information et données numeriques.
> >>
> >>Cheers
> >>Stephane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey
> >>
> >>Merci
> >>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey
> >
> >
> > what do you think of those changes?
> >
> > mike
> >
> >
> >>'''''Engagement Information:'''''
> >> * to get pwords for the wiki '''name''' can help '''email'''
> >> * to get pwords for the Discussion list '''name''' can help '''email'''
> >> * Discussion List -
> >>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca/
> >> * Wiki address - http://civicaccess.ca/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/
> >>
> >>'''''Pour participer:'''''
> >> * Pour un mot de passe pour le wiki contacter '''name''' '''email'''
> >> * Pour un mot de passe pour la liste de discussion '''name''' can help
> >>'''email'''
> >> * Liste de discussion -
> >>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca/
> >> * Addresse du wiki - http://civicaccess.ca/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> >>CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
> >>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
> > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
> >
>
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