[CivicAccess-discuss] inviations? + tranlated letter + plans?

Tue Dec 13 07:20:10 AEDT 2005

pat - could we at least change the name "Discuss mail list on access
to civic information in Canada"?

maybe to civicacc discuss?

On 12/12/05, Michael Lenczner <mlenczner at gmail.com> wrote:
> tracey - i like it all.  i'm going to do it on the wiki now.
>
> patrick - below
> On 12/12/05, Patrick Dinnen <pdinnen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Michael - you're right that the email address for the list could be more
> > elegant (CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca doesn't trip off the
> > tongue). But I've just taken a look at this in Mailman and I think it
> > might be tricky to do for 2 reasons: 1) the part before the @ in the
> > email address (CivicAccess-discuss) is also used as the name for the
> > list in various other contexts within the mailman system, where just
> > 'list' might not work very well (eg it's used as the identifier on the
> > archive selection page). 2) Renaming the list may actually mean deleting
> > and starting over, renaming a running list isn't an option as far as I
> > can see.
>
> i'm hanging out with some sysadmins. they say that it can be done, but
> it's a pain in the ass.  In that case I say we put it off until later
> when we collect a few kickass sysadmins who can do it in their sleep.
> >
> > We could try a recreating the list as something like
> > CivicAccess at civicaccess.ca, but that might not be a huge improvement
> > with the downside of losing the list activity so far. Thoughts?
> >
> > The text of the invite looks good to me. On the question of how to word
> > the section about who should be able to access data at no-cost how about
> > a tweak of Tracey's version to '... civic information and data should be
> > made easily accessible at no cost to citizens'. This is deliberately
> > non-specific in terms of commercial use or no. By leaving these
> > questions open we hopefully make the list more appealing to a broad
> > range of folks with different ideas on questions like this. My 1c.
> >
> I like your machiavellian way of thinking - but I think it's an
> important point.  But we should and will definitely discuss it in the
> larger group.
>
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael Lenczner wrote:
> > > points inserted below:
> > >
> > > first - I think the name of the mailing list is bad.  If we change it
> > > - now is the time before we invite people.  I think it should just be
> > > list at civicaccess.ca.
> > >
> > > If I am the only one that thinks this is worth thinking about, I will
> > > drop it.  But it isn't a big deal if we change it now.
> > >
> > > as for the comments below - if no one disagrees with me i will make
> > > the changes on the wiki.  so be sure to tell me if you think i'm
> > > wrong.
> > >
> > > On 12/12/05, Tracey P. Lauriault <tlauriau at magma.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Greetings all;
> > >>
> > >>It is breakfast time, with crumpets, coffee, sunshine and all,  and I am
> > >>dreaming of drinking some rasberry mort subite and to having a bravo
> > >>toast with my new pals on this list at some point in time today in
> > >>celebration of having sent out of the invitation letter!  It is the
> > >>small things in life that make me happy really!
> > >>
> > >>On a more professional note, below (+on wiki) is the letter that I
> > >>attempted to translate (attempt being the operative here!), and was
> > >>wonderin' what our plans are?  There are also the -how to get involved-
> > >>bits below the letter that need -names and how to stuff- that I hope one
> > >>you fine and wonderful fellas can fill in.  I translated below each para
> > >>to make it easier for the franco editeurs.
> > >>
> > >>Any way, i will keep looking at and pinning for the bubbly on the fridge
> > >>door until which time we do the thang and can celebrate!
> > >>
> > >>Cheers
> > >>Tracey
> > >>
> > >>************
> > >>'''Comments:'''
> > >>tweakable and targeted
> > >>
> > >>go out soon
> > >>
> > >>go out to all on the mail list at the same time
> > >>
> > >>all add names to list
> > >>
> > >>'''questions'''
> > >>need to ensure the how to bits are clear - '''''see engagement
> > >>information'''''?  Can one of you fine people ensure that it will be
> > >>easy to get pwords and such and ensure that the part at the end of the
> > >>letter is clear?
> > >>
> > >>'''DRAFT INVITE LETTER:'''
> > >>
> > >>Hi There;
> > >>Bonjour;
> > >>
> > >>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey here and we would like to invite
> > >>you to co-found a new canadian civic engagement space - Citizens for
> > >>Open Access to Civic Information and Data (COACID).  We are contacting
> > >>you since we know that you have been thinking and talking about these
> > >>issues, have been actively engaged in related activities, and also
> > >>because each or you has unique expertise, knowledge and experience to
> > >>contribute to this type of activity (i.e. social planning, data access,
> > >>open source, mapping, technology creation, etc.).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael et Tracey vous invitent à la formation d'un
> > >>nouvel espace d'engagement civique canadien - Citoyen-ne-s pour l'Accès
> > >>Libre à l'Information et aux Données Civiques (CALIDC).  On vous
> > >>contacte car nous savons que vous aussi avez considérer et discuster de
> > >>ces sujects, aviez été impliqué dans des activités reliés, et parce-que
> > >>vous avez de l'expertise, des connaissances, et de l'experience à
> > >>contribuer à ce type d'entreprise (example: planification sociale, accès
> > >>au données, logitiels libres, cartographie, development de technologie,
> > >>eccetera).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>We are a group of diverse citizens, who also happen to be technologists,
> > >
> > >
> > > the four of us actually aren't a group of diverse citizens.  tracey -
> > > you're the only one who isn't white male professional in between the
> > > ages of 25-32 ;-)  we can either say that we are aiming to be a
> > > diverse group or just say that we're a group of citizens who also
> > > happen to be . . .
> > >
> > >
> > >>academics, and activists, who share a common belief that civic
> > >>information and data should be made easily accessible at no cost for
> > >>non-commercial purposes to citizens and civil society organizations. We
> > >
> > >
> > > okay - this is a big point actually.  There is a big difference
> > > between free data and data free for non-commercial use.   It seems
> > > like a small detail but it's really important.  For example I would
> > > *love* to be able to create a mapping website with environmental data
> > > on it that is supported by advertisments to environmental products.  I
> > > think we should change this to:
> > >
> > > "share a common belief that civic information and data should be made
> > > freely accessible to all citizens"  We could add an "in instances
> > > where data collection currently depends upon cost recovery,
> > > non-commercial use should be allowed with the aim to future free
> > > access"
> > >
> > >
> > >>are doing this because, we understand that participatory democratic
> > >>processes require that citizens have access to information and data to
> > >>inform their engagement and to improve the quality of the decisions they
> > >>make during that process. But also because, information and data are the
> > >>essential bits and bytes required to re-imagine, re-envision, visualize
> > >>and critically analyze the communities we live in.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I think we could say this stronger - that if we are to fulfill our
> > > role as engaged citizens we need to be informed about our society.
> > > Having open access to the civic information is key.
> > >
> > >
> > >>Nous sommes un regroupement divers de Citoyen-ne-s, qui sommes aussi des
> > >>technicien-ne-s, acdémiques, et actitivistes, qui croient que
> > >>l'informations et les données numériques devront être facilement accéder
> > >>sans frais pour des buts non commerciales au citoyen-ne-s et les
> > >>organismes civiques.  Et ce la participation des citoyen-ne-s dans le
> > >>procès démocratiques est intégralement lié à l'accès de l'informations
> > >>et données numériques qui informent cet engagement et aussi qui améliore
> > >>la qualité des décisions faitent dans ce procès.  Aussi, l'informations
> > >>et les données numériques sont nécéssaires pour re-imaginer,
> > >>re-envisioner, visualiser et pour analiser les collectivitées dans
> > >>lesquelles nous vivons.
> > >>
> > >>So far a COACID Civic Access discussion lists has been created and also
> > >>a wiki with some draft content.  The wiki is an open source
> > >
> > >
> > > get rid of open source - not relevant.
> > >
> > >
> > >>collaborative tool that will host content discussed on the list.  In
> > >>short this is an emerging community of citizens across Canada like you
> > >>who want to share what they know, do, their skills, information and data
> > >>and these tools are there to facilitate that.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm going to edit this one a bit:
> > >
> > > "As concerned citizens of our neighborhoods, cities, provinces and
> > > country we are trying to contribute to the development of a larger
> > > community of practice around open civic data in Canada.  We believe
> > > that the combination of stronger open access to civic data along with
> > > new information and communication tools can encourage and support a
> > > more informed and engaged citizenship.  This mailing list and wiki
> > > exist to help people like you who share this belief to pool what they
> > > know, what they do, their skills, their information and their
> > > resources and to support each other in this goal.
> > >
> > > shoot - that's too wordy as well.
> > >
> > >
> > >>à date nous avons créer une liste de dicussion COACID Civic Access et un
> > >
> > >
> > > change COACID to CALIDC
> > >
> > >>wiki.  Le wiki est un outil collaboratif et un example d'un logitiel
> > >>libre qui supportera les discussion de la liste de discussion. Bref,
> > >>c'est une collectivité emergente de citoyen-ne-s à travers le canada de
> > >>personnes comme vous qui veulent partager ce que l'on sait, fait, nos
> > >>compétences, de l'information, des données numériques, et des outils
> > >>associés pour faciliter ces objectifs.
> > >>
> > >>Please join the list and introduce yourselves, check out the wiki, share
> > >>your ideas, interests, and add some content and discuss issues you think
> > >>are important from your unique and diverse perspectives.  There is no
> > >>pre-determined way to do or say things, so feel free to say, modify, and
> > >>do as you like in this environment. The group remains small and closed.
> > >>Once we have been working together a little the list and wiki will be
> > >>opened to the public and other related communities of practice!
> > >>
> > >
> > > I would change the last 2 sentances to:
> > > The mailing list and wiki are still closed to the public.  The only
> > > reason for that is for us to discuss together about this topic - what
> > > we want it to become, how we can want to work together - before we
> > > invite the general public.  We are not trying to be exclusive - 3 of
> > > us have never worked specifically in the domain of civic information -
> > > but we think that it could be beneficial to temporarily share a more
> > > limited discussion with you before we open up the site and mailing
> > > list.  We want to have a solid idea for this space before we lauch it
> > > and we are asking for your help in deciding what that framework should
> > > be.
> > >
> > >
> > >>Joignez-vous à la liste de discussion, introduisez-vous, navigué le
> > >>wiki, partagé vos idées, intérets, et ajouter du contenue et discuté des
> > >>sujets que vous considérez importants de vos perspectives uniques. Il
> > >>n'y a pas de format spécifié pour partager vos commentaire, donc soyez
> > >>libre de dire, modifier, et de faire ce que vous voulez dans cet
> > >>environment.  Le groupe demeure petit et fermé au fondateur et invité en
> > >>ce moment, et lorsques nous serions plus habitués de travailler ensemble
> > >>la liste de discussion et le wiki seront ouverts au public et d'autre
> > >>communautés de pratiques.
> > >>
> > >>We look forward to being engaged in this information and data community
> > >>building activity with you!
> > >>
> > >>Nous avons hate d'etre engagé avec vous dans la formations d'une
> > >>nouvelle communauté dedié au partage d'information et données numeriques.
> > >>
> > >>Cheers
> > >>Stephane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey
> > >>
> > >>Merci
> > >>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey
> > >
> > >
> > > what do you think of those changes?
> > >
> > > mike
> > >
> > >
> > >>'''''Engagement Information:'''''
> > >> * to get pwords for the wiki '''name''' can help '''email'''
> > >> * to get pwords for the Discussion list '''name''' can help '''email'''
> > >> * Discussion List -
> > >>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca/
> > >> * Wiki address - http://civicaccess.ca/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/
> > >>
> > >>'''''Pour participer:'''''
> > >> * Pour un mot de passe pour le wiki contacter '''name''' '''email'''
> > >> * Pour un mot de passe pour la liste de discussion '''name''' can help
> > >>'''email'''
> > >> * Liste de discussion -
> > >>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca/
> > >> * Addresse du wiki - http://civicaccess.ca/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > >>CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
> > >>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > > CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
> > > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
> > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
> >
>