[CivicAccess-discuss] inviations? + tranlated letter + plans?

Tue Dec 13 07:21:03 AEDT 2005

i do not see losing the bits on the list to date be an issue and either 
name is fine by me!

Patrick Dinnen wrote:

>Michael - you're right that the email address for the list could be more 
>elegant (CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca doesn't trip off the 
>tongue). But I've just taken a look at this in Mailman and I think it 
>might be tricky to do for 2 reasons: 1) the part before the @ in the 
>email address (CivicAccess-discuss) is also used as the name for the 
>list in various other contexts within the mailman system, where just 
>'list' might not work very well (eg it's used as the identifier on the 
>archive selection page). 2) Renaming the list may actually mean deleting 
>and starting over, renaming a running list isn't an option as far as I 
>can see.
>
>We could try a recreating the list as something like 
>CivicAccess at civicaccess.ca, but that might not be a huge improvement 
>with the downside of losing the list activity so far. Thoughts?
>
>The text of the invite looks good to me. On the question of how to word 
>the section about who should be able to access data at no-cost how about 
>a tweak of Tracey's version to '... civic information and data should be 
>made easily accessible at no cost to citizens'. This is deliberately 
>non-specific in terms of commercial use or no. By leaving these 
>questions open we hopefully make the list more appealing to a broad 
>range of folks with different ideas on questions like this. My 1c.
>
>Patrick
>
>
>
>Michael Lenczner wrote:
>  
>
>>points inserted below:
>>
>>first - I think the name of the mailing list is bad.  If we change it
>>- now is the time before we invite people.  I think it should just be
>>list at civicaccess.ca.
>>
>>If I am the only one that thinks this is worth thinking about, I will
>>drop it.  But it isn't a big deal if we change it now.
>>
>>as for the comments below - if no one disagrees with me i will make
>>the changes on the wiki.  so be sure to tell me if you think i'm
>>wrong.
>>
>>On 12/12/05, Tracey P. Lauriault <tlauriau at magma.ca> wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Greetings all;
>>>
>>>It is breakfast time, with crumpets, coffee, sunshine and all,  and I am
>>>dreaming of drinking some rasberry mort subite and to having a bravo
>>>toast with my new pals on this list at some point in time today in
>>>celebration of having sent out of the invitation letter!  It is the
>>>small things in life that make me happy really!
>>>
>>>On a more professional note, below (+on wiki) is the letter that I
>>>attempted to translate (attempt being the operative here!), and was
>>>wonderin' what our plans are?  There are also the -how to get involved-
>>>bits below the letter that need -names and how to stuff- that I hope one
>>>you fine and wonderful fellas can fill in.  I translated below each para
>>>to make it easier for the franco editeurs.
>>>
>>>Any way, i will keep looking at and pinning for the bubbly on the fridge
>>>door until which time we do the thang and can celebrate!
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>Tracey
>>>
>>>************
>>>'''Comments:'''
>>>tweakable and targeted
>>>
>>>go out soon
>>>
>>>go out to all on the mail list at the same time
>>>
>>>all add names to list
>>>
>>>'''questions'''
>>>need to ensure the how to bits are clear - '''''see engagement
>>>information'''''?  Can one of you fine people ensure that it will be
>>>easy to get pwords and such and ensure that the part at the end of the
>>>letter is clear?
>>>
>>>'''DRAFT INVITE LETTER:'''
>>>
>>>Hi There;
>>>Bonjour;
>>>
>>>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey here and we would like to invite
>>>you to co-found a new canadian civic engagement space - Citizens for
>>>Open Access to Civic Information and Data (COACID).  We are contacting
>>>you since we know that you have been thinking and talking about these
>>>issues, have been actively engaged in related activities, and also
>>>because each or you has unique expertise, knowledge and experience to
>>>contribute to this type of activity (i.e. social planning, data access,
>>>open source, mapping, technology creation, etc.).
>>>
>>>
>>>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael et Tracey vous invitent à la formation d'un
>>>nouvel espace d'engagement civique canadien - Citoyen-ne-s pour l'Accès
>>>Libre à l'Information et aux Données Civiques (CALIDC).  On vous
>>>contacte car nous savons que vous aussi avez considérer et discuster de
>>>ces sujects, aviez été impliqué dans des activités reliés, et parce-que
>>>vous avez de l'expertise, des connaissances, et de l'experience à
>>>contribuer à ce type d'entreprise (example: planification sociale, accès
>>>au données, logitiels libres, cartographie, development de technologie,
>>>eccetera).
>>>
>>>
>>>We are a group of diverse citizens, who also happen to be technologists,
>>>      
>>>
>>the four of us actually aren't a group of diverse citizens.  tracey -
>>you're the only one who isn't white male professional in between the
>>ages of 25-32 ;-)  we can either say that we are aiming to be a
>>diverse group or just say that we're a group of citizens who also
>>happen to be . . .
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>academics, and activists, who share a common belief that civic
>>>information and data should be made easily accessible at no cost for
>>>non-commercial purposes to citizens and civil society organizations. We
>>>      
>>>
>>okay - this is a big point actually.  There is a big difference
>>between free data and data free for non-commercial use.   It seems
>>like a small detail but it's really important.  For example I would
>>*love* to be able to create a mapping website with environmental data
>>on it that is supported by advertisments to environmental products.  I
>>think we should change this to:
>>
>>"share a common belief that civic information and data should be made
>>freely accessible to all citizens"  We could add an "in instances
>>where data collection currently depends upon cost recovery,
>>non-commercial use should be allowed with the aim to future free
>>access"
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>are doing this because, we understand that participatory democratic
>>>processes require that citizens have access to information and data to
>>>inform their engagement and to improve the quality of the decisions they
>>>make during that process. But also because, information and data are the
>>>essential bits and bytes required to re-imagine, re-envision, visualize
>>>and critically analyze the communities we live in.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>I think we could say this stronger - that if we are to fulfill our
>>role as engaged citizens we need to be informed about our society. 
>>Having open access to the civic information is key.
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Nous sommes un regroupement divers de Citoyen-ne-s, qui sommes aussi des
>>>technicien-ne-s, acdémiques, et actitivistes, qui croient que
>>>l'informations et les données numériques devront être facilement accéder
>>>sans frais pour des buts non commerciales au citoyen-ne-s et les
>>>organismes civiques.  Et ce la participation des citoyen-ne-s dans le
>>>procès démocratiques est intégralement lié à l'accès de l'informations
>>>et données numériques qui informent cet engagement et aussi qui améliore
>>>la qualité des décisions faitent dans ce procès.  Aussi, l'informations
>>>et les données numériques sont nécéssaires pour re-imaginer,
>>>re-envisioner, visualiser et pour analiser les collectivitées dans
>>>lesquelles nous vivons.
>>>
>>>So far a COACID Civic Access discussion lists has been created and also
>>>a wiki with some draft content.  The wiki is an open source
>>>      
>>>
>>get rid of open source - not relevant.
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>collaborative tool that will host content discussed on the list.  In
>>>short this is an emerging community of citizens across Canada like you
>>>who want to share what they know, do, their skills, information and data
>>>and these tools are there to facilitate that.
>>>      
>>>
>>I'm going to edit this one a bit:
>>
>>"As concerned citizens of our neighborhoods, cities, provinces and
>>country we are trying to contribute to the development of a larger
>>community of practice around open civic data in Canada.  We believe
>>that the combination of stronger open access to civic data along with
>>new information and communication tools can encourage and support a
>>more informed and engaged citizenship.  This mailing list and wiki
>>exist to help people like you who share this belief to pool what they
>>know, what they do, their skills, their information and their
>>resources and to support each other in this goal.
>>
>>shoot - that's too wordy as well.
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>à date nous avons créer une liste de dicussion COACID Civic Access et un
>>>      
>>>
>>change COACID to CALIDC
>>
>>    
>>
>>>wiki.  Le wiki est un outil collaboratif et un example d'un logitiel
>>>libre qui supportera les discussion de la liste de discussion. Bref,
>>>c'est une collectivité emergente de citoyen-ne-s à travers le canada de
>>>personnes comme vous qui veulent partager ce que l'on sait, fait, nos
>>>compétences, de l'information, des données numériques, et des outils
>>>associés pour faciliter ces objectifs.
>>>
>>>Please join the list and introduce yourselves, check out the wiki, share
>>>your ideas, interests, and add some content and discuss issues you think
>>>are important from your unique and diverse perspectives.  There is no
>>>pre-determined way to do or say things, so feel free to say, modify, and
>>>do as you like in this environment. The group remains small and closed.
>>>Once we have been working together a little the list and wiki will be
>>>opened to the public and other related communities of practice!
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>I would change the last 2 sentances to:
>>The mailing list and wiki are still closed to the public.  The only
>>reason for that is for us to discuss together about this topic - what
>>we want it to become, how we can want to work together - before we
>>invite the general public.  We are not trying to be exclusive - 3 of
>>us have never worked specifically in the domain of civic information -
>>but we think that it could be beneficial to temporarily share a more
>>limited discussion with you before we open up the site and mailing
>>list.  We want to have a solid idea for this space before we lauch it
>>and we are asking for your help in deciding what that framework should
>>be.
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Joignez-vous à la liste de discussion, introduisez-vous, navigué le
>>>wiki, partagé vos idées, intérets, et ajouter du contenue et discuté des
>>>sujets que vous considérez importants de vos perspectives uniques. Il
>>>n'y a pas de format spécifié pour partager vos commentaire, donc soyez
>>>libre de dire, modifier, et de faire ce que vous voulez dans cet
>>>environment.  Le groupe demeure petit et fermé au fondateur et invité en
>>>ce moment, et lorsques nous serions plus habitués de travailler ensemble
>>>la liste de discussion et le wiki seront ouverts au public et d'autre
>>>communautés de pratiques.
>>>
>>>We look forward to being engaged in this information and data community
>>>building activity with you!
>>>
>>>Nous avons hate d'etre engagé avec vous dans la formations d'une
>>>nouvelle communauté dedié au partage d'information et données numeriques.
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>Stephane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey
>>>
>>>Merci
>>>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey
>>>      
>>>
>>what do you think of those changes?
>>
>>mike
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>'''''Engagement Information:'''''
>>>* to get pwords for the wiki '''name''' can help '''email'''
>>>* to get pwords for the Discussion list '''name''' can help '''email'''
>>>* Discussion List -
>>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca/
>>>* Wiki address - http://civicaccess.ca/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/
>>>
>>>'''''Pour participer:'''''
>>>* Pour un mot de passe pour le wiki contacter '''name''' '''email'''
>>>* Pour un mot de passe pour la liste de discussion '''name''' can help
>>>'''email'''
>>>* Liste de discussion -
>>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca/
>>>* Addresse du wiki - http://civicaccess.ca/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
>>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>
>
>  
>