[CivicAccess-discuss] inviations? + tranlated letter + plans?
Tracey P. Lauriault
tlauriau at magma.ca
Tue Dec 13 07:24:50 AEDT 2005
Accès civique-discuss
- Michael Lenczner wrote:
>pat - could we at least change the name "Discuss mail list on access
>to civic information in Canada"?
>
>maybe to civicacc discuss?
>
>
>On 12/12/05, Michael Lenczner <mlenczner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>tracey - i like it all. i'm going to do it on the wiki now.
>>
>>patrick - below
>>On 12/12/05, Patrick Dinnen <pdinnen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Michael - you're right that the email address for the list could be more
>>>elegant (CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca doesn't trip off the
>>>tongue). But I've just taken a look at this in Mailman and I think it
>>>might be tricky to do for 2 reasons: 1) the part before the @ in the
>>>email address (CivicAccess-discuss) is also used as the name for the
>>>list in various other contexts within the mailman system, where just
>>>'list' might not work very well (eg it's used as the identifier on the
>>>archive selection page). 2) Renaming the list may actually mean deleting
>>>and starting over, renaming a running list isn't an option as far as I
>>>can see.
>>>
>>>
>>i'm hanging out with some sysadmins. they say that it can be done, but
>>it's a pain in the ass. In that case I say we put it off until later
>>when we collect a few kickass sysadmins who can do it in their sleep.
>>
>>
>>>We could try a recreating the list as something like
>>>CivicAccess at civicaccess.ca, but that might not be a huge improvement
>>>with the downside of losing the list activity so far. Thoughts?
>>>
>>>The text of the invite looks good to me. On the question of how to word
>>>the section about who should be able to access data at no-cost how about
>>>a tweak of Tracey's version to '... civic information and data should be
>>>made easily accessible at no cost to citizens'. This is deliberately
>>>non-specific in terms of commercial use or no. By leaving these
>>>questions open we hopefully make the list more appealing to a broad
>>>range of folks with different ideas on questions like this. My 1c.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I like your machiavellian way of thinking - but I think it's an
>>important point. But we should and will definitely discuss it in the
>>larger group.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Michael Lenczner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>points inserted below:
>>>>
>>>>first - I think the name of the mailing list is bad. If we change it
>>>>- now is the time before we invite people. I think it should just be
>>>>list at civicaccess.ca.
>>>>
>>>>If I am the only one that thinks this is worth thinking about, I will
>>>>drop it. But it isn't a big deal if we change it now.
>>>>
>>>>as for the comments below - if no one disagrees with me i will make
>>>>the changes on the wiki. so be sure to tell me if you think i'm
>>>>wrong.
>>>>
>>>>On 12/12/05, Tracey P. Lauriault <tlauriau at magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Greetings all;
>>>>>
>>>>>It is breakfast time, with crumpets, coffee, sunshine and all, and I am
>>>>>dreaming of drinking some rasberry mort subite and to having a bravo
>>>>>toast with my new pals on this list at some point in time today in
>>>>>celebration of having sent out of the invitation letter! It is the
>>>>>small things in life that make me happy really!
>>>>>
>>>>>On a more professional note, below (+on wiki) is the letter that I
>>>>>attempted to translate (attempt being the operative here!), and was
>>>>>wonderin' what our plans are? There are also the -how to get involved-
>>>>>bits below the letter that need -names and how to stuff- that I hope one
>>>>>you fine and wonderful fellas can fill in. I translated below each para
>>>>>to make it easier for the franco editeurs.
>>>>>
>>>>>Any way, i will keep looking at and pinning for the bubbly on the fridge
>>>>>door until which time we do the thang and can celebrate!
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers
>>>>>Tracey
>>>>>
>>>>>************
>>>>>'''Comments:'''
>>>>>tweakable and targeted
>>>>>
>>>>>go out soon
>>>>>
>>>>>go out to all on the mail list at the same time
>>>>>
>>>>>all add names to list
>>>>>
>>>>>'''questions'''
>>>>>need to ensure the how to bits are clear - '''''see engagement
>>>>>information'''''? Can one of you fine people ensure that it will be
>>>>>easy to get pwords and such and ensure that the part at the end of the
>>>>>letter is clear?
>>>>>
>>>>>'''DRAFT INVITE LETTER:'''
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi There;
>>>>>Bonjour;
>>>>>
>>>>>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey here and we would like to invite
>>>>>you to co-found a new canadian civic engagement space - Citizens for
>>>>>Open Access to Civic Information and Data (COACID). We are contacting
>>>>>you since we know that you have been thinking and talking about these
>>>>>issues, have been actively engaged in related activities, and also
>>>>>because each or you has unique expertise, knowledge and experience to
>>>>>contribute to this type of activity (i.e. social planning, data access,
>>>>>open source, mapping, technology creation, etc.).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael et Tracey vous invitent à la formation d'un
>>>>>nouvel espace d'engagement civique canadien - Citoyen-ne-s pour l'Accès
>>>>>Libre à l'Information et aux Données Civiques (CALIDC). On vous
>>>>>contacte car nous savons que vous aussi avez considérer et discuster de
>>>>>ces sujects, aviez été impliqué dans des activités reliés, et parce-que
>>>>>vous avez de l'expertise, des connaissances, et de l'experience à
>>>>>contribuer à ce type d'entreprise (example: planification sociale, accès
>>>>>au données, logitiels libres, cartographie, development de technologie,
>>>>>eccetera).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>We are a group of diverse citizens, who also happen to be technologists,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>the four of us actually aren't a group of diverse citizens. tracey -
>>>>you're the only one who isn't white male professional in between the
>>>>ages of 25-32 ;-) we can either say that we are aiming to be a
>>>>diverse group or just say that we're a group of citizens who also
>>>>happen to be . . .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>academics, and activists, who share a common belief that civic
>>>>>information and data should be made easily accessible at no cost for
>>>>>non-commercial purposes to citizens and civil society organizations. We
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>okay - this is a big point actually. There is a big difference
>>>>between free data and data free for non-commercial use. It seems
>>>>like a small detail but it's really important. For example I would
>>>>*love* to be able to create a mapping website with environmental data
>>>>on it that is supported by advertisments to environmental products. I
>>>>think we should change this to:
>>>>
>>>>"share a common belief that civic information and data should be made
>>>>freely accessible to all citizens" We could add an "in instances
>>>>where data collection currently depends upon cost recovery,
>>>>non-commercial use should be allowed with the aim to future free
>>>>access"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>are doing this because, we understand that participatory democratic
>>>>>processes require that citizens have access to information and data to
>>>>>inform their engagement and to improve the quality of the decisions they
>>>>>make during that process. But also because, information and data are the
>>>>>essential bits and bytes required to re-imagine, re-envision, visualize
>>>>>and critically analyze the communities we live in.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I think we could say this stronger - that if we are to fulfill our
>>>>role as engaged citizens we need to be informed about our society.
>>>>Having open access to the civic information is key.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Nous sommes un regroupement divers de Citoyen-ne-s, qui sommes aussi des
>>>>>technicien-ne-s, acdémiques, et actitivistes, qui croient que
>>>>>l'informations et les données numériques devront être facilement accéder
>>>>>sans frais pour des buts non commerciales au citoyen-ne-s et les
>>>>>organismes civiques. Et ce la participation des citoyen-ne-s dans le
>>>>>procès démocratiques est intégralement lié à l'accès de l'informations
>>>>>et données numériques qui informent cet engagement et aussi qui améliore
>>>>>la qualité des décisions faitent dans ce procès. Aussi, l'informations
>>>>>et les données numériques sont nécéssaires pour re-imaginer,
>>>>>re-envisioner, visualiser et pour analiser les collectivitées dans
>>>>>lesquelles nous vivons.
>>>>>
>>>>>So far a COACID Civic Access discussion lists has been created and also
>>>>>a wiki with some draft content. The wiki is an open source
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>get rid of open source - not relevant.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>collaborative tool that will host content discussed on the list. In
>>>>>short this is an emerging community of citizens across Canada like you
>>>>>who want to share what they know, do, their skills, information and data
>>>>>and these tools are there to facilitate that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I'm going to edit this one a bit:
>>>>
>>>>"As concerned citizens of our neighborhoods, cities, provinces and
>>>>country we are trying to contribute to the development of a larger
>>>>community of practice around open civic data in Canada. We believe
>>>>that the combination of stronger open access to civic data along with
>>>>new information and communication tools can encourage and support a
>>>>more informed and engaged citizenship. This mailing list and wiki
>>>>exist to help people like you who share this belief to pool what they
>>>>know, what they do, their skills, their information and their
>>>>resources and to support each other in this goal.
>>>>
>>>>shoot - that's too wordy as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>à date nous avons créer une liste de dicussion COACID Civic Access et un
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>change COACID to CALIDC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>wiki. Le wiki est un outil collaboratif et un example d'un logitiel
>>>>>libre qui supportera les discussion de la liste de discussion. Bref,
>>>>>c'est une collectivité emergente de citoyen-ne-s à travers le canada de
>>>>>personnes comme vous qui veulent partager ce que l'on sait, fait, nos
>>>>>compétences, de l'information, des données numériques, et des outils
>>>>>associés pour faciliter ces objectifs.
>>>>>
>>>>>Please join the list and introduce yourselves, check out the wiki, share
>>>>>your ideas, interests, and add some content and discuss issues you think
>>>>>are important from your unique and diverse perspectives. There is no
>>>>>pre-determined way to do or say things, so feel free to say, modify, and
>>>>>do as you like in this environment. The group remains small and closed.
>>>>>Once we have been working together a little the list and wiki will be
>>>>>opened to the public and other related communities of practice!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I would change the last 2 sentances to:
>>>>The mailing list and wiki are still closed to the public. The only
>>>>reason for that is for us to discuss together about this topic - what
>>>>we want it to become, how we can want to work together - before we
>>>>invite the general public. We are not trying to be exclusive - 3 of
>>>>us have never worked specifically in the domain of civic information -
>>>>but we think that it could be beneficial to temporarily share a more
>>>>limited discussion with you before we open up the site and mailing
>>>>list. We want to have a solid idea for this space before we lauch it
>>>>and we are asking for your help in deciding what that framework should
>>>>be.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Joignez-vous à la liste de discussion, introduisez-vous, navigué le
>>>>>wiki, partagé vos idées, intérets, et ajouter du contenue et discuté des
>>>>>sujets que vous considérez importants de vos perspectives uniques. Il
>>>>>n'y a pas de format spécifié pour partager vos commentaire, donc soyez
>>>>>libre de dire, modifier, et de faire ce que vous voulez dans cet
>>>>>environment. Le groupe demeure petit et fermé au fondateur et invité en
>>>>>ce moment, et lorsques nous serions plus habitués de travailler ensemble
>>>>>la liste de discussion et le wiki seront ouverts au public et d'autre
>>>>>communautés de pratiques.
>>>>>
>>>>>We look forward to being engaged in this information and data community
>>>>>building activity with you!
>>>>>
>>>>>Nous avons hate d'etre engagé avec vous dans la formations d'une
>>>>>nouvelle communauté dedié au partage d'information et données numeriques.
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers
>>>>>Stephane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey
>>>>>
>>>>>Merci
>>>>>Stéphane, Patrick, Michael and Tracey
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>what do you think of those changes?
>>>>
>>>>mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>'''''Engagement Information:'''''
>>>>>* to get pwords for the wiki '''name''' can help '''email'''
>>>>>* to get pwords for the Discussion list '''name''' can help '''email'''
>>>>>* Discussion List -
>>>>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca/
>>>>>* Wiki address - http://civicaccess.ca/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/
>>>>>
>>>>>'''''Pour participer:'''''
>>>>>* Pour un mot de passe pour le wiki contacter '''name''' '''email'''
>>>>>* Pour un mot de passe pour la liste de discussion '''name''' can help
>>>>>'''email'''
>>>>>* Liste de discussion -
>>>>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca/
>>>>>* Addresse du wiki - http://civicaccess.ca/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>>>CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
>>>>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>>CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
>>>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
>>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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